Old Age & problems

[AngelMom]

Anybody ever hear of fish near the end of their (expected) lifespan having problems with swimming or with their swim bladder?

I have some black neon tetras that are over 5 years old (their expected lifespan is 5 from what I can find). I lost one last week after "he" started swimming upside down and now have noticed a second one with the same problem. There are no signs of disease (except possibly this) and no one else has been sick in this tank (the 60) since it was setup last August.

Thanks!

[Crys18]

Hello AngelMom! I see a lot of you on here and you always offer really good advice. Just wanted to let you know that. lol On to the topic....I've had that problem with some tetras, but never neons although I've never had any black neons either. I've also had that problem with goldfish and an older betta and 1 fancy guppy, but I'm not sure it would be the same thing. I would try Paragon II made by aquatronics. It's supposed to help that sort of thing. It did work with my fancy guppy and betta and it might have been the cure with my goldfish as well. I have reccomended it to someone else on here having problems with a goldfish bladder disorder. Be careful to follow the instructions carefully as it is pretty powerful stuff. Then again it could be just old age or something entirely different, but you can try that and see if it helps any. Good luck!

[AngelMom]

Thanks for the response. Since this fish is pretty old by tetra standards, and I have some sensitive fish in the tank, I'm choosing not to medicate as the strong antibiotics tend to kill off some of the good bacteria as well and I don't want to try and recycle the tank with my angels, corys, pleco and loaches.

The info I've been able to find on swim bladder problems tends to be somewhat vague and there can be a number of factors that cause it (internal infection, virus, fish gulping air when the eat, eating too many dry flakes, etc) but I've never seen old age as a suspected cause.

Since no one else shows any signs of illness, and the "experts" (who have written the books I have) seem to not understand this too well, I'm assuming that it may have something to do with old age deterioration (especially since another had the same problem recently) and we'll just hope he doesn't suffer too much before passing.

[Crys18]

I would think that would be best in your situation because of the other fish. I've never had angels either, but I would imagine they may be more sensitive to the whole precedure anyway. Although instead of treating the tank, you could put them in a quarantine tank to treat them so that it won't affect the other fish. That's totally up to you. You're the expert here, not me, so whatever you think is best is what I would go with. Good luck and I hope your fish get better!

[AngelMom]

I'm certainly no expert (LOL) and am not sure there is any such thing in this hobby....... but thanks for the vote of confidence.:)

My 20 gallon tank was supposed to be my hospital tank, but my dwarf gourami kept trying to fight with my angel pair (they are acting like they want to spawn, so they chase most of the other fish away) and I was afraid one of them would get hurt, so the gourami is now a permanent resident (and the "big fish") in the 20.

My LFS guy keeps teasing me that I need yet another tank (thinking about it, but really have no more room!) and my neighbor left me an add for a thing called "fish head", which is basically a tank attached to a toilet, with a note that I might try that when I run out of room completely! Sick woman!

If the tetra weren't near the end of his expected lifespan, I'd probably be more likely to treat him, but since he's pretty old I doubt that it will do much good. Sigh.

[Crys18]

You may not be an expert, but you certainly have a lot of good information packed away in your brain somewhere I'm sure. The only fish that I have even tried to breed and was successful with are guppies so far, but I'm trying to narrow down the amount of tanks I own now that I'm getting into saltwater so breeding guppies is no longer an option. I currently own a lot of tanks actually I own 8 and just gave a 55 to my sister last week and I'm trying to sell another 55 at the moment and also thinking about selling my 75 as well. I REALLY need the space lol. My new 100 gallon long takes up a lot of space and I really don't have it. I'm also giving away all of the guppies I have left so that I can make one of their tanks into a quarantine and one into a hospital tank for my saltwater. I'm still a little confused about SW tanks, but since marine biology is what I'm going to college for, I'm sure I'll get it right eventually. Do you have any saltwater? I've read as much info on them as I possibly can and my brain just can't obsorb anymore info. I've been researching on them for the last 7 months or so and reading every day. I'm one of those people who can only read so much and then it just doesn't sink in anymore. Hey...btw ya never know if medicine wouldn't help your neons or not. I know a guy that owns a pet shop around here and he's had a white cloud in his tank for 7 yrs now. Perfectly healthy still. He keeps it in his store. Like I said though....if you don't think it would help any then I wouldn't bother either. You might just be throwing away money. I just had a female betta die on me yesterday. She was old too. Well, I hope the rest of your fish pull through ok. Don't let your neighbor bully you. You can never have too many tanks! lol

[AngelMom]

No, no SW. Always been afraid that they would be more work than FW and the thought of expensive fish having problems gives me the willies.

BTW, we aren't trying to get the angels to spawn, they just have their own ideas about things. LOL I have a pair of killies in my 55 that are also trying to spawn. Sigh

[Crys18]

Nah, I think you'd be good with SW. I think it would be easier. I'm just starting on it, so I'll let ya know how it goes once I have livestock in my tank for awhile. Maybe you'll change your mind. I've seen quite a bit freshwater that are actually more expensive. Another plus is that you don't have to vacuum their tank, just partial water changes every now and again. I think that will be my favorite part. lol Tired of vacuuming all these tanks. I would say the only drawback so far that I know of is that their equipment is so expensive. $650 for a 24 hour Metal Halide light (keeping corals as well). Oh yeah...and it makes your bills go up too, but I don't have to worry about that (I don't pay the bills around here). They are really beautiful though. How's your Mr. Fish doing these days? No better, no worse? You sound really experienced with Angels. How long have you been keeping them?

[AngelMom]

I've had angels off & on for about 20 years. Unfortunately, most of the things I have learned about them have been by doing the wrong things.:EM

I'm so glad I found this forum......eveybody is really great and I've picked up a lot more in the last 9 months or so. And, like you, I read lots of books.

The tetra is still alive and in the same shape. Sometimes he does OK, then he'll loose control & start swimming upside down again. Thanks for asking.

[betaboi]

It might be breeding. But if he is doing continuous barrel rolls then its a sickness. Have you done anything irregular during water changes lately? Give your water Dept. a cal and ask if they have made any changes. If it is none of these i would let nature take it's course.

The saltwater section on this site is actually quite helpful. I suggest you give them a shout and BTW i was going to go into SW before as well and it costs twice as much to keep up! You have to buy the salt, this device that mesures the amount of salt in the water (this mesurement is also known as specific gravity) and if you want a healthy tank you need to get this protein skimmer thingy.:confused: When it comes to that i am lost but i really wanted clownfish!!:( Anyway, if i were to get a SW tank it wouldn't be too big, just one of those 20gal nano cubes, a couple of clowns, a cherry fire shrimp and maybe an anenome.:D

[AngelMom]

Thanks for the response, but he is definitely not breeding and the water is fine as I filter it before I run it into the tank. He can't really control how he is swimming and I am sure its a swimbladder problem. As I said, he's pretty old for a tetra and no one else is ill so I'll just let things be.

[Crys18]

SW is more expensive when you start out and it does require a really good skimmer, but once you get everything and your tank is cycled and you have everything the way you want it.....it's not so bad. Getting started is the hardest part, not the worst though because it's interesting and fun to learn about. The worst part is the money you have to spend to get it the way you want it. I'll be keeping clowns. The device that you're talking about that measures the salt content is called a hydrometer. They're actually pretty cheap. Protein skimmers are kind of like a filter it helps keep the water clean. It makes little bubbles on the top of the water and filters it that way. This along with live rock and a refugium would be about all you need for filtration. You can read the rest for yourself if you still want to get into SW.

As far as AngelMom's fish goes, I would just let him go. I hate to sound mean, but if the fish is old, he's gonna die anyway......Treating him would probably only prolong his life for a little longer anyway and that would be a waste of money and if it really is old age....only make him suffer with it longer so I'd just let it be. Let her do as she likes, she can actually see what kind of shape the fish is in and whether or not she should treat him with something. Mother knows best!

[Crys18]

Woops! My bad betaboi, skimmers filter through making bubbles in a reaction chamber.......here's a site if you want to know more about the skimming process: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&siteid=6&acatid=309&aid=437

I'm glad you said something about skimmer...otherwise I wouldn't have known until later on. Thanks for the help! I guess that's the SW beginner comming out in me. I guess nobody's perfect though and more reading about skimmers I shall do since I failed at the knowledge of my equipment part already! :( Every time I read something new now, my brain just turns to scambled eggs and I can't remember what I've learned. Does anyone else have that problem when trying to soak up too much info? lol Anyway, I would suggest getting a few books on the subject of saltwater if you wanted to get into that. The internet can be a blessing or a curse if you're not careful. Another thing if your interested in any fish, you can subscribe to Aquarium Fish Magazine. They're really good with expert advice and I've been using it for about 3 yrs now. You can go to www.aquariumfish.com and subcribe there. They also have forums on that site as well.