Sad ending......

[metal-head]

Well my female platy is dying...clamed fins, real skinny, and she is kinda bent..I had to give her special attention because she was not as competitive as her other tank mates. My guess would have been she just didn't eat. During the summer I would feed my fish so the others would get food and then I would hand feed her or else she wouldn't eat. when I get up but now I am barley up so I would forget to feed my fish. Its been 4 weeks scince it started and three scince my mom started feeding them for me (don't know what would happen if she didn't.) I hate school because they get you so rapped up in it that you can't concentrate on other things such as my tank. I did keep up with water changes haven't tested it but I think its unecessary as long as I keep up with the water changes. So...my question is how long will it take for her to pass? And is letting nature take its course cruel? I don't want to spark a major argument about what is right and wrong...I just want to know if natural death is accepted way of death. Thank you for your responses and such like.
Doug

[DevinJM]

Don't give up yet. Get some garlic juice and add some to her food, and that might perk her up. You could try a salt dip. There is a chance that she might live through this and be alright so wait and see what mom says (anglemom that is) and others opinions.
Well, if she is going to die for sure and she is only suffering then it would be best for you to do it cause it is cruel to watch her die. You can go a number of ways. Clove oil will "put her to sleep", just add some to some tank water in a container, mix very very well and add fish. Decapitation, as cruel as it sounds works well and is quick, though you have to be sure of what you want to do. I will not suggest freezing it cause that is more painful for the fish than nessary. Add 2 parts water to 1 part vodka and add fish, and it goes quick. I could go on but I would use one of the above. I had a chinese algea eater go nutso and attack his tankmates and he had a brush with the captian (morgan for those who don't follow) and it worked like it should have. (now, to cover my butt. I do NOT support the murder of fish just because they are an inconvenience, because they are ill and they don't want to put the effort into saving them, or because they are not what they thought they would be. Life is not a game for anyone to play. The only time I will euthanise an aquatic animal is when A, it turns nutso and goes on the attack, or B when they are painfully dying and I know darn well that I can nolonger help them.)

[lloyd berg]

great advice (in my oppinion-2cents worth) DevinJM.
also good idea to put your 'disclaimer' to end.
it's hard to get 'good' ideas on the topic. you covered it.

[metal-head]

Unfortunatly the only thing I have is the aquarium salt...And it looks inevitable Iexcept I have not had one die on me so I wouldn't know what inevietable looks like. Well i did have two die the power went out for nine hours, and one died like that and then the other just died a few weeks later they didn't look like this though. Ill try to describe the best i can, Pale, bent, very skinny, cannot swim very well. Unfortunatly my parents don't drink but I do have some friends ..lol. . But would a salt dip do any harm? And if i get an okay then I will do the salt dip. Thank you
Doug

[lloyd berg]

don't know if you have experience with a salt dip but here goes. you want(believe it or not) about 2 pounds of salt for a 10 gallon sick tank. fish should be exposed for 30 -60 seconds before being replaced in secondary sick tank of same tank water of origin. to read up on it:
www.pondarama.com/html/salt_fix.html

[metal-head]

well there are other fish in the 10 gallon only because the bigger tank is cycling. I have a bucket should make fill w/3gallons of water how much salt should i add? my calcs come to be .75lbs but i only have this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4982&N=2004+113014 and its the smaller of the 2.

[lloyd berg]

if your doing a true dip(30 second exposure to rid parasites and 'burn' skin to clear infected surface) you need to saturate the water. your calculation for 3 gallon is pretty close to mine.
watch fish closely. timing is crucial. a small fish should be 'done' in 20-30 seconds tops.
last resort,live and learn.good luck...
(did you check out my site reference??)

[metal-head]

im just not sure what to do...I haven't even started my homework and i have a paper due tommarow...If my fish is sick then I will do whatever I can so I will set up the salt dip and give it a go. This is why I hate school I have more important stuff to do than to do something that is not important enough to do in class. I just hope my parents don't kill me because its open house night and theyll know if I have homework. Thank you for all your help. I really appreciate it.

Doug

[metal-head]

i did look at the reference

[lloyd berg]

do your school work. it's a discipline that will help you save a lot more than fishes in the future.

[metal-head]

The time inbetween the start of this post and 837 that the fish died. So I didn't do the dip. I did do my homework and just got done. I also did a 50% water change. Is there anything else I should do? And I appreciate the help...Just in case something happens in the future i am going to be more prepared. I would like to thank those who helped me.

Doug

[AngelMom]

I'm so sorry to hear about your fish........I know it's hard to lose any of them. Also sorry I wasn't able to post sooner.

I don't want to scare you here, but I'm pretty sure (99%) that your platy had fish tuberculosis (fish TB). Most likely, any other fish will not catch it, but it is one of the few fish diseases that is transmitable to humans.

Sterilize all equipment (nets, etc) that you have used in the tank and do not place your hands in there if you have any cuts or other open wounds (hopefully you don't have any cuts as I am pretty sure you've probably already had your hands in the tank). If the other fish are fine, don't worry about it, the bacteria should die off in a week or two......just be careful around the tank until then. And let your mom know too if she is helping with the tank.

One last thing........please know that there was nothing you could have done to save her. Once it's obvious that fish have TB, it's too late to do anything to treat them. If you are worried about the other fish (maybe they were stressed from the power outage problems?) you can use an antibiotic in the tank to try and prevent anyone else from getting it (though, as I said, they most likely won't......she probably had it when you got her; it sometimes takes a year or more to show signs of illness). If you choose to use antibiotics on a cycled tank, remember that most of them will kill off at least some of the good bacteria and you may have to recycle. One exception is kanamycin (I use Kanaplex by Seachem). It won't affect the biological filtration.

[metal-head]

Whoa....Alright, so lets assume my platy had TB. Umm...I have gotten somewhat germaphobic since I started keeping reptiles so I did wash my hands and I used a 3%hydrogen peroxide and vinegar to sterilize the net would this have killed the TB? Now is the TB in the water as in freeswiming or is it just contact w/the fish for Humans? What would human symptoms be?

When the fish died I had her in a net because I had this feeling something would happen. If the fish were curious and nipped her could they get it? Im gonna go ahead and get the Kanaplex just to be on the safe side. maybe half a dosage.

My friend found this for me!
http://www.4qd.org/Aqua/disease/tb.html

Thank you so much angelmom I am very glad to know that I could be at some risk.


Doug

[AngelMom]

Whoa....Alright, so lets assume my platy had TB. Umm...I have gotten somewhat germaphobic since I started keeping reptiles so I did wash my hands and I used a 3%hydrogen peroxide and vinegar to sterilize the net would this have killed the TB?
Bleach is what I've seen recommended, though the peroxide will probably do the trick too.

Now is the TB in the water as in freeswiming or is it just contact w/the fish for Humans? What would human symptoms be?
The bacteria are free-floating in the water. As for symptoms in humans, it would most likely be a persistent rash that covers your skin near where you had a cut or other open wound. Nothing too serious, but caution is advised.

When the fish died I had her in a net because I had this feeling something would happen. If the fish were curious and nipped her could they get it?
I don't think so......everything I've read on fish TB says that healthy fish will not get it, though eating an infected fish does pose some risk and live bearers can pass it on to their offspring.

Im gonna go ahead and get the Kanaplex just to be on the safe side. maybe half a dosage.
Do a full dose if you are going to use it. A partial dose will only allow the strongest bacteria to become immune to the medication.......then you can end up with "super bugs" in the tank. BTW, the recommended dose on the package is only about 2/3 of the full dose actually recommended. The package recommends using 9mg/L (180 mg dose to 20 L, or 5 gallons), but my reference (Manual of Fish Health) recommends 12-13mg/L, so I usually use 1.5 scoops (included with the medication) to every 5 gallons which gives about 13mg/L

My friend found this for me!
http://www.4qd.org/Aqua/disease/tb.html
I glanced through this......looks like the author has done a fairly thorough job, but some of it is in conflict with several books I have.....not to say that the books are right, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. Too many disease causes/treatments are debated, so who really knows for sure?

HTH

[lloyd berg]

sorry you fish didn't hang on,metalhead. most times the idea to 'try' to save a pet takes precedent over the logical 'right thing to do'. emotions evade logic but that's o k because we're human. it is in or nature to care beyond our abilities.
if your fish had that 'bent spine' symptom for longer than the last day or so then i agree with angelmom's diagnosis (she's pretty good,eh)
any livebearer with curved spine should be isolated and any fish for sale at an lfs showing that symptom is a solid reason to leave the entire store forever. any lfs that doesn't at least 'hide the disease' by culling the obvious can't take care of anything else either.

[metal-head]

Thanks for all the help. Im keeping a close eye on the tank now.

Doug

[Hic]

i dont get it. when people posts about platys having trouble(like me) they always die the next few days. :mad: do plays usuallyy die once you suspect something wrong with the fish? :confused:

[Jaimecid]

I was wondering, how is it posible for anybody to tell you that your fish had TB, w/o seing it??
I think this is a false alarm, fish get sick all the time, and, never heard of tb.
If your fish had TB, you would have some others infected. I do not think so....do not worry. If it makes you feel better, ask your vet, you could take a fish to him for a sample of fliuds.
You are oK bud.
***************************************** :)

[lloyd berg]

small livebearers like platys and guppys that have a distinct bend in their spine can be assumed to have tb. it is that common. these deformed fish NEED to be culled (sorry for being cruel) in order to avoid the sick breeding into another generation of sicker fish.
with poor breeding partners (like a brother with a sister) comes weak genetic pooling .this results in under developed immunity to diseases (natures way of culling)
your success attempts to save these types of illnesses goes against nature's law of 'survival of the fittest.' the responsable part of fish doctoring is identifying illnesses properly. then we will know when medication has a good chance to save the fish. and we will know when the fish is just too ill. our role then is to be kind and compassionate to our little dying friend.(tough topic- maybe i should have passed)

[metal-head]

I also did my own research on it. Like in science if someone claims they have found something other scientists do their own research on it. I read what Tb was and my platy fit the description.
i dont get it. when people posts about platys having trouble(like me) they always die the next few days. do plays usuallyy die once you suspect something wrong with the fish?
A lot of illness we can only spot symptoms when they are in their advanced stages, which is too late for most meds. But with more research there will better treatments for ailing fish
Doug

[Jenn]

I' have a thought, was this platy a female by chance?

[Hic]

is there a site that tells you about TB?

[lloyd berg]

hi hic. if you want some info on t.b. then just google 'fish tuberculosis' and you will find lots to read.

[Jenn]

female livebearers are ussually overbreed. Sometimes their tail droops, they get real thin and won't eat. Just worn out.

[lloyd berg]

the same thing happens in other species, jenn. i believe i have seen similar cases at the mall. lol.

[Hic]

Thanks lloyd berg. There WAS ALOT to read! :D

[Jenn]

Yeah but livebearers especially, they have such a short life cycle to begin with. Quite sad really.