salt question

[Jenn]

Hello fishy genius's, I'm helping someone out over in the beginners section and they have mollies with a few other fish. I know salt is safe for all the others and that mollies need it, but the also have a betta and a pleco in there. Is salt safe for those 2 fish and at what levels?

[betaboi]

Both of those fish, moreso the pleco, are very sensative to any salt levels. Better to keep them at good old zero. In the end i'm sorry to say, your friend will have to get rid of one or the other, the mollies or the beta and pleco since mollies, as i understand, need a brackish setup when they are older, or do better, i'm not too bright on mollies.

[lloyd berg]

i've been getting mixed results from different situations with regard to salt as a med and as a tonic. most agreed dose as amed is one( 1) teaspoon for every ten(10) gallons of 'actual' water(not tank size).
if you use salt as a tonic or suspect your fish may be/are sensitive to salt (like crazyred's barbs) then i would utilize half doses for both situations.
i use salt to increase oxy levels when raising tempurature during medication terms(along with increased water turbulance).
i have also used salt to help fish survive a high nitrate spike (caused by hobs-the biggest food ingesting and nitrate processing machine ever to see a tank).
bettas are salt sensitive and so are plecos.

[DevinJM]

Well, the pleco doesn't like salt but will be ok with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons cause that isn't a whole lot, as for the betta, Im not sure.

[betaboi]

Whoa! Close postings!

[lloyd berg]

yeh,close is right. i would have beet you if i didn't blab (and type with 1 finger.) ha ha

[Jenn]

lol ok guys, thats what I told her (her I think) anyway

[Jenn]

Why don't they inform people that mollies are brackish?

[crazyred]

My pleco survived a truckload of salt way better than the barbs. The instructions on the carton are ridiculous. 1 TABLEspoon for every 5 gallons!!! I put 6 tablespoons in there!! :eek: :eek: :eek: No wonder my poor cherries didn't make it. I'm surprised everything didn't die. The platies and the pleco didn't seem to care. I don NOT recommend using this amount, I don't know why it's listed this high on the container.......very scary.

[DevinJM]

Hey, that ammount is for a dip not to live in.

[crazyred]

Well, those were the instructions on the carton (didn't say anything about a dip, was listed as 'tonic'). Is it any wonder my fish died?

[betaboi]

Actually the stuff i got said the same thing except it said for use only on livebearers.

[crazyred]

Mine didn't have any warning about salt sensitive species, or list any warnings about not using it on certain fish......a tad irresponsible if you ask me since there are several commonly aquired fish that would not appreciate that much salt.... :mad:

[Jenn]

Your pretty sure it was the salt that killed (or atleast contributed big time) to loosing yor barbs? The reason I ask is I have barbs in one of my tanks with, skirts, gouramies, killi, upsidedown cat--and a black tip shark. The shark needs some salt and no one mentioned to us that the barbs wouldn't like it either. I have only about 3 tsp in a 32gal. But if they dont like salt, I dont imagine much of any amount at all is appreciated. I should probably move that shark and drop the salt level?

[lloyd berg]

salt dosing is one of those topics that is difficult to research. the main reason for this is the broad range of value that salt can give to various species of fish and plants.(yes, salt can assist plant growth but please don't run for the shaker)
salt as a tonic(as jenn is utilizing) will not harm any fish while it assists others in the tank who appreciate it. it assists in oxygenation and water's specific gravity (to keep it simple)
salt as a med can do more harm than good if exposure exceeds the purpose. salt as a med is concentrated enough to 'burn' off the parasite and also 'burn' infected scale areas to reduce infection and start the healing process. that is what is referred to a 'dip' . very short exposure of high concentration. it is followed by a melafix tank for rapid slime recoating. if salt exposure is too strong or too long the fish will continue to burn. visible fin damage is first sign of over exposure. gills and mouth will redden but may be harder to see.
the sensitivity of fish to salt will determine the bath strength they require to get the job done.maturity and scale size are good rules to guide you.fry and scaleless species are on the no-no list. big boys like oscars and dempseys will need more time to reach deeper under the scale to rid all parasites.

[crazyred]

Jenn, I would strongly caution you in using salt on your barbs, but especially the gouramis. Angelmom and others have warned repeatedly that gouramis a salt sensitive, and yes, the salt killed my barbs. The amount listed on the box was waaaaay too much, and it scorched them. Later, in researching, I found where barbs are salt sensitive. It seems that fish needing soft, slightly acidic water have more trouble with salt than others.

[DevinJM]

In order to keep them happy as possible, I would keep the salt away from the gouramis and the barbs, but when I had my 20 gallon community, I added salt tot the tank and my Tiger barbs were fine. I added a table spoon per 10 gallons (I think) and they were fine, but I wouldn't do it now, knowing what I know.If you had too, use about a teaspoon per 5 gallons not a tablespoon.

[lloyd berg]

(edit) . have a nice day.

[Jenn]

I didn't know about the gouramis either! Can you believe anyone who works in a fish store!? apparently not! This cat/shark is too small to move to one of the bigger tanks yet. I wonder if the new Paratilapia Polleni would bother him? Pretty sure the geos and balas wont, mybe he can move to that tank.
Oh sorry, and thank you very much for the info--the right true info!

[lloyd berg]

a true brackish fish can tolerate swings in saline. they live in an area where salt density fluctuates with the tide of ocean and out flow of freshwater river beds. so your lfs is just taking advantage (for the purpose of sales) by avoiding a more complex environment for a popular 'beginner fish'.
so some salt exposure is good but constant exposure is not required. this makes mixing some brackish types with other freahwaters more acceptable.