Read This If You're Prepared To Be Angered!

[AASPBY]

Alright, today one of the elementary schools had a huge fundraising party festival thing. Everything was going fine until I noticed they were giving away goldfish. You know, like the ones from fairs in bags. There was about 100-200 in a ten gallon tank. They were put into Ziploc bags and the kids ran around for another 3 hours. So, as the night went on, the fish thinned but I was still mad. The woman who had to take the fish out was upset by this too. At the very end, I saw some kid go by torturing a fish! I was delayed but eventually I yelled, "BE NICE TO THE FISH!" When the whole thing was done and over with, there were twelve fish left. I offered to take them home. I don't expect them to live but I figured I'd make their last days worth while. I know the tank is too small but it was either that, or a half gallon bowl or worse, don't want to go there! I complained, next year there had better not be any fish giving. Gosh! People are so cruel sometimes!

[Buddha_Red]

sadly this is way to common. I scolded an employee tonight. i was at wally world and they were selling PACU's!! and African chiclids. i was so mad when i heard the employee recommend one of the pacus for a 10g tank this person was buying. I first scolded the employee then proceeded to give a class on aquarium 101.

score one for the good guys, you did good friend. Maybe one day our fish will not look like disposable fish and look more like pets they respect. its always good when you stand up for those that cant.

[AASPBY]

This is an oops. I was posting something but my stupid computer found a way to delete it! :mad:

[crazyred]

AASPBY, good for you. I know that you may not have the resources to take care of these fish, but you did the right thing. I applaud guys like you. You guys are stand up people, you and betaboi, you give me hope fo r the next generation. Anything we can do to help let us know, ;)

[Jaimecid]

Good ASSPY, you did what you coukld, and, obviously you had no sayiong in that ignorant act....I am sure the ones that organized this were completely ignorant to the matter......I do not think they meant ill....but....it is a big and very bad exhibition of ignorance....
One thing, we can make a little difference...if it were posible....let us know the school website...we can send them a bunch of letters of concern....no mention about you, and nothing disrespectfull...just letting them know that people noticed....so they educate themselves in the area of fish.....we can make a difference.... :)

[cheapy]

God 100-200 fish in that small of a tank WOW!People are sure cruel these days.Nothing should be treated badly because its smaller.Think of this if 100-200 humans were in a small room like a closet.Nice job takeing the rest of the fish home :)

[AASPBY]

Yeah, they made it through the night! Every one of them is swimming around and making messes (Luckily there's a good filter on that tank!) and eating. But I do have one question...Do they need goldfish flakes, or can they live off of the tropical flakes?

I think a few of us made a loud enough stink, so hopefully there will be no cruelty next year. I say...candy that is shaped like fish! That sounds like fun!

[crazyred]

I always fed mine goldfish flakes because I figured that being cold water fish their dietary needs were bound to be different from tropicals.

I've seen just the candy you're talking about....gummy fish. Kinda like gummy bears, but fish instead. Very cool. :cool:

[MightyTuna]

Sweetish Fish??? Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Nummy.

[betaboi]

And what i dont get is that goldfish are actually much harder to reproduce than you might think!

[AASPBY]

Okay, i got some Goldfish food from a neighbor. Said that his fish didn't eat them. My goldfish certainly do! What I plan on doing, now that they all look generally healthy, is getting some gravel. There's a small amount in there now, but not nearly enough. Because I just quickly put together a tank. All I wanted to do was get them out of that water! People's hands and who knows what else were in there! But I am really surprised that they all look so great. One of the kids from PTO never got one (He has an aquarium) so I figured that I'd monitor them and if they all looked healthy in like a week, I could give him one. But I do realize now, those fish are PIGS!!!! :D

[MalawiCichlidBreeder]

Post some pics of the little champs, I want to see them after reading this thread.

What kind of goldfish are they? Hopefully not feeders..


J

[AASPBY]

I don't really know what kind they are. But I have noticed that some have tail fins that are orange and fade into white. Even if they are feeders, they make an interesting tank. Everyone is still alive and eating! :D

[betaboi]

Sounds a bit like comets. I had a few of them in a 35gal long years ago and they actually bred! Made one foggy tank but it worked. LOL Good to hear they're alright! Keep up the good work! :)

[AASPBY]

sadly this is way to common. I scolded an employee tonight. i was at wally world and they were selling PACU's!! and African chiclids. i was so mad when i heard the employee recommend one of the pacus for a 10g tank this person was buying. I first scolded the employee then proceeded to give a class on aquarium 101.

score one for the good guys, you did good friend. Maybe one day our fish will not look like disposable fish and look more like pets they respect. its always good when you stand up for those that cant.


Whoa! Are you serious? A 30" fish in a 10 gallon? That's ridiculous! People at Wal*Mart have no idea what they are talking about. Sure, some do, but no one is really stationed there. If they have a fish expert, they should be stationed in the pet department!

[crazyred]

Good luck finding even the biggest moron in the store "stationed" in the pet section. Everytime I need an item down from the high shelf (for my dog or cat) It takes me at least 30 minutes to locate someone who works there, then they have to find the WM "pet expert" who is usally on their lunch/smoke break and doesn't know any more about pets than the first dummy I found. :LOL

[MalawiCichlidBreeder]

I don't understand how you guys down in the states only have the option of large corporate stores to buy your fish supplies at. I have 9 LARGE fishstores exclusively within a 40 minute driving distance of my house. Everything from hundreds of live plants in perfect condition, salt water reefs/fish/equipment needs, and thousands of tanks of freshwater. I guess I'm spoiled.. and I guess I'm also rubbing it in..

Just another reason why Canada is so mch better.......... :D

Kidding.. kind of

Cheers.

J

[Buddha_Red]

i buy my food and stuff at the lowest price i can. I buy fish from local fish shops, but no reason to pay 60 bucks for a 38 dollar filter.Its sad, but i only go there for good quality fish.

[lloyd berg]

yeah,you gotta love canada. home of the 50$ third generation malawi peacock, the 20$/lb holy rock, and the .50 cent dollar....
and isn't kitchener tied with brampton for the dirtiest big al's in the country??
(no mcb...i ain't picking on ya. i'm just goofing around )
i think that...up here in...well north of you...we have hardly...like anything to buy...you know for fish stuff...

[crazyred]

Well.....I can't speak for al of America, because I live in northern Mexico (almost) It is more like Mexico where I am than it is like Texas or any other American state. All the people that I've talked to that have owned fish shops can't afford to keep them open.......rent/taxes too high and revenues too low. I hate to say it, but the educational level around me is such that (most-not all) people are content buying sickly little cheapy fish at Walmart and just replacing them time after time when they die instead of educating themselves on what went wrong.....thereby dooming any LFS from being successful.......sad but true!

(Sorry if this post seems poitically incorrect, I don't mean it to be.....it's just the way it is)

[DevinJM]

Man, around me I have 0 real lfs, all of them sell birds, and small mammals like gunie pigs and stuff, all 3 sell dogs and cats, 3 sell fish, there is one that I havent been to yet (GASP!) cause it is like 45 min away, and then I have this guy that owns a reef wholesaler company and I can get prettymuch anything but livestock (which is coming when he opens the storefront soon) but it is only saltwater reef. Fresh selection sucks here, and all we have are the commons except for that volitian lionfish and the snowflake morae eal and some damsel, but there just salt and not even up for purchase. I applied at one and got an interview but then they higherd a little pot heat instead. Jeez people these days.

[Jaimecid]

Hear you CrazyRed.....here it has gotten to a point where good LFS have to compete with billion dollar giants like Wall Mart , Petco , etc...which have the money to open big stores, everywhere , creating competition.....many people go to these stores to buy other goods, and, visit the pet dept in that store, and end up buying......and.....economics goes against the small local store, because rents are high, they are forced to raise prices to meet costs ( rent, employees, etc ) while big stores can lower prices due to mass purchasing and larger share of customers (((((big stores are more visible, and, also, opportunity, like I said, we might go to the LFS for fish stuff, while many pet customers visit Wall Mart or others for other reasons, and end up at the pet dept)))))...plus less overall costs ( ((paying minimum wage, against big revenues that come from a big array of products ///// while LFS pay salaries that run against much less revenues))))
....so...unfortunately....lfs get the bad side of the situation....
but...here is where competition can show up....small stores could have services that big companies do not have, like, if I had a local store...I would have...among other services....free visitations for sick fish......free aquarium parameters check up ( specially if you buy a kit at my place, I would give you free 3 mo visitations, 2 /mo....I could do it myself....))))...stuff like....points for purchases....that would go towards free services....or fish.....filters....cartridges.....food.....everything carries points....and you get a card....where points are listed....there is many ways a local store can show quality service unsurpassed by big companies.......I have seen a lot less LFS in here (CA, there used to be a lot....now....not that many))) but the ones that hold on....hold big time.....with services that the big corporations that open a fish dept can not match.
Well...this looks more like a economics class.....
About Canada....it is cool...Canada seems to be much like the US, but, less radical in the quest for material satisfaction....which I find excelent ( like the approach to public health care)) unfortunately, here it is too much "money talks" too much of anything can be hazardous.........
What about AquariumProsForum??? it is close to all and every one of us......as long as we comunicate in english....there is no nationality....like fish....one planet....one world :)

[MalawiCichlidBreeder]

Kitchener one is brutal, I agree Lloyd. I have gotten into MANY arguments with their management over their fishroom and costs. The problem with that big al's is that it is one of the oldest of the franchises and they are not up-to-date on their chain policies and pricing guidelines. I talked to Allen about it and he said they are going to make them change soon enough. The LFS that I mainly am talking about are the ones in Hamilton, Oakville, Burlington areas. They seem to care a great deal about their fish and their profit margins arent as important to them since the owners are huge fish hobbiests themselves.

Next time you come down around this area give me a holler and will have a fish date. Lol.

If you are going by Kdubs fish prices, yes I agree, I saw a peacock pair going for 89.99 and they were like 2" long. I then asked them if they were looking to get more similar (since I had about 30 or 40 1.5 inch peacocks at the time) and they offered me $1 each. lol... Wasn't a joke.

Anyway, that's life I guess. Some people are greedy and you know the saying.. pigs get slaughtered.

J

[lloyd berg]

since i took the time to dis a few big al's stores i feel compelled,out of fairness, to emphasize that there are some (like the 3 mentioned by mcb) that are irresistable shop-stops to the touring fishaholic. even the mississauga store deserves inclusion. any place that can stock that many pleco varieties in a (semi) clean store deserves an honourable mention.

and something has to break in order for a good breeder to get treated fairly in this wholesale 'game'. my fronts are worth more than 2$/inch.

[crazyred]

I have to say that if conditions were correct the large, mostly unhealthy fish tanks at chain stores (Walmart etc.) would pose no competition whatsoever to the small LFS. Correct conditions being that the person would really have to care a lot about the fish and their tanks and less about cheepies and impulse.

Now, not all Walmart and other chain stores have unhealthy fish. Just last week Buddha Red was telling of finding healthy clown loaches at a local WM. To me, the key is education in knowing the difference.

[betaboi]

I haven't been to the Big Al's in Oakville, but i have been to the brampton store. The manager offered me a job but there ain't no way i can get there and home on part-time wages! It didn't seem too "dirty" as lloyd stated, i've seen cleaner, but their selection is one of the largest i have ever seen.

I'm one of the spoiled ones for LFS's. I have two within walking distance from me, actually, not even two blocks! One is better quality but chrages way more for their SW supplies and livestock, and the other is just starting up so the store isn't too impressive looking but their prices are only 1/3 the other stores for SW livestock! And what's more, they're both in the same plaza (the fruit market/farmer's market) and are only about 3-5 doors down from each other.

Strictly Fish is owned, founded and operated by two bros. (or friends i don't know their whole life story) Bernie and Dave who were ticked off by the stupid high prices for supplies and decided to start their own company. It's still only local but they've been in buisness since before i was born! They breed their own livebearers, demasoni, labs, percula clowns, and have a friend (my sis' ex's dad) who breeds clarki clowns for them. They have somehwere around 3000gallons of aquariums in the store (ya i know, not that much) but their advise is true and honest and i have never been ripped off for anything from them.

Reef Galaxy is the "new guy in town". A new LFS that had just opened around two weeks ago. Their prices are super low (especially for SW) and their stock is almost completely imported.

These are just two of the 5 or 6 stroes i have around me (within 30min. drive) that specialise in fish.

[crazyred]

That's where this thread is so I will go there. I have Harlingen Pets. They have SW and FW fish (very few) as well birds, reptiles, & rodents. They have NADA on fish selection, but their price on chemicals (Prime, Stability, etc.) are awesome, and this is the only LFS where I managed to find garlic for the fish food and real driftwood.

Then I have Animals Galore. They are also a bird/rodent/reptile all around pet supply store. The prices on their chemicals are outrageous, but they have a so-so fish selection (the guy said he could order whatever I need in the way of fish), the main thing is their fish are disease free and seemingly healthy. Although this is the LFS of mine that has high nitrates in the tank (old tank syndrome) I sent them a letter about it and I think they may have it under control.

We are getting a Petsmart soon so I'm pretty optimistic about that (the one 40 miles away had some really good looking plants, and their fish didn't look too bad.) Other than that, that's it.

I did talk on the phone with a lady that used to own The Aquarium, a LFS that went out of business. She said they still have access to stock, they just do their business out of their home now. She breeds electric blues, so when I set up my 55 I'm in bidness!!!!!

Yeeeeehaw, y'all need to mosey on down here ta little 'ole Northern Mexico and find out jest how slim the pickens can be when it comes ta' the LFS!!!!!!

[betaboi]

The dirtiest pet store here is Ruffins -"Georgetown's one-stop pet depot" which is ironically enough, in the same strip plaza as my two LFS's.The most filthy, ranky, scummy store i have EVER been to. It smells so bad that the book store it shared the ducts with was put out of buisness because it smelled too much. Now they've taken over the other half and expanded a bit so it doesn't smell as horrible but its still there. One word can decribe it, CRAMPED! The store clerk trips over stuff that is sitting half on the shelf!

Super Pet is another store i go to a lot around here, though i think it is only in Canada. The fish section in the Milton store has a guy who really knows his stuff. They have baby duboisi there too that they had just ordered in!!! They are also selling a master test kit for $30CDN. You can guess what i'm going there next for! ;)

Its funny, no Canadian province is really in the fish buisness except Quebec. All the rare fish i have found out to be in Quebec and for a good deal less than here in Ontario. Ahh, it wasn't too long ago that Quebec threatened to become its own country, then what would happen to the fish buisness up here!

No i don't say eh...much... :D and yes i do love bacon. Its strange how two countries get so stereotyped yet they are connected. BTW, how many of you guys watch hockey? Leafs beat Philly 4 to 2 last night! :CO What was embarrasing was they lost on the shoot to Ottawa two games in a row! Sometimes i think they do it on purpose just to make us fans mad!

Wow, that really got off topic.

[DevinJM]

The real hagen master test kit is huge, the one in the plastic brief case, and teh msrp is 100, and I bought one for 89 with tax and the whole bit.

[betaboi]

Wow, okay let me refrais that, a semi-master test kit. :o

[Buddha_Red]

i bought the master kit for like 40 a year ago. its not exactly an expensive thing compared to all the stuff we have to buy. Really just make sure you get ammonia,nitrates, nitrites, ph and optional gh and kh,phosphates . i use ammonia,PH,nitrites and nitrate tests mainly. A copper and disolved o2 test would be nice, i havent tried them yet. .

Believe me, i know about stereotypes, I live in Texas. Nuff said LOL :D

[Jaimecid]

She said they still have access to stock, they just do their business out of their home now. She breeds electric blues, so when I set up my 55 I'm in bidness!!!!!

!!!!

:confused: CrazyRed...what is that about electric blues??? are those blue tetras??? :confused:

[DevinJM]

Yeah my kit will check for ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, iron, phosphate, calcium, kh, gh, and 2 different ph levels.

[crazyred]

Nope, the electric blues I was referring to in that post are African cichlids from Lake Malawi. I haven't firmly decided on what I want to do with the 55 that i don't have yet :BW I just can't decide between an African cichlid tank or a CA Cichlid tank. :confused:

[betaboi]

Well you've got one thing down, it's gunna be cichlids! That's half the battle!

The kit i saw for $30 did pH wide range (6.5-9.0), ammonia, nitrAte, kH and gH, and phosphates, i think it did copper too, dunno. I'll have to go back and have a look. ;)

Kind of shocking that it doesn't do nitrItes though isn't it?

[Jaimecid]

Well you've got one thing down, it's gunna be cichlids! That's half the battle!

The kit i saw for $30 did pH wide range (6.5-9.0), ammonia, nitrAte, kH and gH, and phosphates, i think it did copper too, dunno. I'll have to go back and have a look.

Kind of shocking that it doesn't do nitrItes though isn't it?


:confused: yes...how is it posible not :confused: to measure for nitrites and nitrates ........ :confused:

[lloyd berg]

a nitrate is just as simple as a nitrite that picked up an oxygen molecule. nitrite level is part of the tank's original cycle and so measuring it is part of the beginner kit. ammonia and nitrate are measurements more relative to the stability of a cycled tank so you see them in the 'pro' kits.
(if you agree, you owe me .02 cents. lol)

[Buddha_Red]

/agree any testing kit should and does come with ammonia,nitrates, nitrites and PH

if they do not include these tests, your not buying the right kit. I paid right at 40 bucks for my "master kit" from petco. it was not the one in a hard plastic case, i dont move my testing kit more than 10 inches so no need for that.Start testing your water, this is how you know your tank is cycled and safe. You can buy add on kits to check dang near everything, i even saw one to test for disolved O2 in the water.

[AASPBY]

Update: As I suspected most would die. I still have three though. Funny, the ones that lived are the ones I didn't expect to live. One has a sliver of a tailfin, one is tiny and the other...Well, he's normal. They're doing well and I no longer think of them as the fish I rescued from a hard night, but as one of my fish tanks! They have learned who I am and come swimming over when I enter the room. Yes, they are comets. I guess when they're full grown I'll have to find another place for them! :D

[betaboi]

That's too bad AASPBY. Oh well, at least you managed to save 3! Glad to hear some survived! :D