new 55 gallon tank currently setting up

[Batman96LS]

hello all. this is my first post so pleae...be gentle.

i currently have a 10 gallon tank set up with a tinfoild barb and a bala shark as well as one sucker/tank cleaner. well needless to say the tinfoild has outgrown the tank and the bala is getting picked on and i fear that his growth may be getting stunted. my answer to this...get a bigger tank.

i picked up a 55 gallon tank and didn't really realize just how big it was until i started setting it up. well it's on day two of my cycling stage currently. i plan on transferring the three fish into it within about 2 weeks. here's the deal.

i want to get two more tinfoil barbs and two more bala sharks so that both sets can school together. to add a little color and variation i also want to add 5 tiger barbs so that they can school together and hopefully not fin nip the tinfoils and the balas.

has anyone tried this combo together and with what results? am i looking at disaster here or perhaps a very nice setup? i would do a couple of clown loaches instead of the tiger barbs but the clown loach that i had got ich and died while he was quarantined a couple months back so i'm not going to go down that road again. i don't want to mess up the water chemistry of such a large tank.

*edit*

i tried live plants before with little success due to the tinfoil barb but i'm going to try it again and plant the bulbs today and hopefully they will be able to grow enough over a week...i hope i hope...kinda doubt it though.

[AngelMom]

Welcome to the forum! Really, we don't bite.....at least not too hard! (shut it Lloyd.......I know there's a line in there for you somewhere - LOL)

OK, on to more serious stuff...........

The bad news is that balas require a minimum 70 gallon tank. 55 might be OK for the one for awhile, but it's really not a good idea to put three of them in there. Here's Some info on them: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=1177&N=0
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/silvershark.xml

I couldn't find any info on the tinfoil barbs on either the Live Aquaria or Pet Education sites, but based on the info here http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/tinfoil.xml I'd have to guess that you'll be in the same boat with these guys.

Regarding your questions.......I'd be willing to bet that any smaller fish (tiger barbs included) will end up being a snack when the others get bigger. Until you can get an even larger tank, I would not recommend more large fish (the two you have will tank up almost 1/2 the tank). The two of them and you pleco (depending on the type) are going to amount to 35 fish inches!

One other thing.......you said you were cycling it. How are you cycling it? There is no process that I know of that will cycle a tank in less than 30 days.

[Batman96LS]

alrighty. those are actually the same places that i've been looking through when i have been checking on the fish as well. i had heard 70 gallons as well but i don't have that kind of money.

the tinfoil takes up about the same amount i would say since i was at the national aquarium in D.C. and saw 3 tinfoils there each around 13 inches in length. big fish. anwyay.

perhaps i will just keep the tinfoild and the bala the way that they are...single.

this is actually the kind of algea eater that i have...i had never found anything on it before today...

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=1564&N=3

but perhaps for now the tiger barbs would be okay in the tank seeing as how they will hit around 2.5" - 3" in length and i assume that the bala and the tinfoil will stop growing at around 7" or 8" depending on tank conditions.

as for cycling. this is just what i've heard it called from a few individuals who are probably on about the same more or less beginner/novice level that i'm at. basically what i have done is:

-clean the gravel and place it in the tank
-add the water
-set up the filter and the heater and began running both of them with the tank full
-add the chlor-out, stress zyme, and easy balance as my chemicals. will add stress zyme again on the 7th and 14th days.
-added the live plant bulbs which i hope will grow

as i said i was thinking of adding fish later this week...thursday or maybe friday. i just set the tank up yesterday and have had it running. maybe i should hold off though for a bit longer...2 weeks perhaps...?

[AngelMom]

OK - you will need to read up on the nitrogen cycle.........there is a good link in my signature. The tank will not cycle without an ammonia source so you need to decide if you are going to cycle with or without fish. If you decide to do so without fish, do a search here on fishless cycling, there are a number of good threads on the subject. If you cycle with fish, bear in mind that neither the bala nor the tinfoil can deal with high levels of ammonia or nitrite. Since you seem set on the tiger barbs, and they are suitable for cycling, you might want to use them. Here is a list of fish suitable for cycling: http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/fishcyclefw.shtml BTW, do not use the manmade bacteria products..........most are useless and a waste of money. Some work, but will compete with the bacteria that form naturally and the combination will cause problems later on.

On restricting fish growth.......while yes, it is true that the growth may be restricted in smaller tanks (all fish in crowded conditions secrete a hormone to keep their tankmates from growing) it does not occur without damage to the fish. Fish whose growth has been stunted will not live to their expected lifespan and the stress of the stunting will cause them to be prone to illness. Also, you need to consider that as the fish become larger, they will become more aggressive with their tankmates as they seek the space they need. This also causes stress on them.

That said, if you keep just the two with the algae eater in a 55, you may be able to go a year or two before any problems arise. At that point you will need to consider either a larger tank or another home for the fish to keep them healthy.

The chinese algae eater you have isn't as bad as the common plecos I though you might have, at least for the space issues. Just be aware that as they get older they get more aggressive and have been known to attack their tankmates.

On the tiger barbs......you could try them of course, just be aware that they may not work out in the long term.

HTH

[Batman96LS]

kool...thanks for the info. i'll start reading through those links there. perhaps i will go ahead and cycle the tank with the tiger barbs. i just wasnt sure if they would be able to survive higher nitrogen levels or not.

[andy1_52]

I have an eighty gallon and I wanted a lot of fish in it so I'm sticking with all kinds of tetras and a few guppies to give a steady source of live food for my angels when they get bigger!

I really like tetras... I guess I'm a collector...

[Batman96LS]

wait a second here...i just saw in your post...ummmm...

"BTW...do not use manmade bacteria products. most are useless and will come in conflict with the natural bacteria later on."

okay...something like that anyway. i use stress zyme which has bacteria in the chemical to promote growth. should i be using stress coat instead which it doesn't say anything about having these bacterium in the chemical?

[AngelMom]

Stress-Zyme is one of those manmade bacterial products ....... I would strongly recommend not using it. Stress Coat is a water conditioner used to remove chlorine and chloramines and it also has aloe to help coat the fishes skin. If you have fish in the tank, you can use the Stress Coat, if there are no fish in there, I wouldn't bother. Chlorine will get expelled from the water within 24 hours......if you have chloramines inyour tap water you do need to neutralize them somehow (either stress coat or another water conditioner designed for that purpose).

[Batman96LS]

okay. here is a list of the chemicals that i have and have used.

*Chlor-Out - i'm currently out of it and don't plan on purchasing more of it.
*Easy Balance with nitrate reducer
*Aqua Safe
*Stress Zyme

typically i do a water change every other week or so in the 10 gallon tank. at that time i would use the Chlor-Out to take care of the chlorine (now i use aqua safe instead) and add easy balance and stress zyme. i also add stress zyme each time i add new fish to the tank.

am i overlapping the purpose of some of these chemicals here? and what, if any, chemical is there for the reduction of stress in the fish...i thought that that was part of the purpose of the stress zyme but i do see that i am wrong on this assumption.

*edit*

after reading through the descriptions of each chemical on the walmart webiste perhaps all i really need to use is Easy Balance and Stress Coat for my chemicals. with the exception of God forbit having to use Ick Away at some point in time.

[andy1_52]

ditch the stress-zyme the aqua safe is necessary and as for the Easy Balance with nitrate reducer probably don't need it. If your doing water changes every other week then wouldn't that keep your nitrates in check. The only chem that I use in my tank is stress coat during water changes.

[AngelMom]

The Easy Balance may also cause long term problems with the water quality and may mask or interfere with water test results. All you need to use is a good dechlorinator........and maybe something to get rid of chloramines if you have them in your water. No other chemicals are necessary........ever. Shops that advocate making your fishes home a chemical soup are just trying to make money off of you. Personally, I have no desire to make the water in my tanks as bad as the air here in LA..................

[andy1_52]

Ya I was going to ask do nitrate removers even work? I always thought it was just good old fashioned water changes that took care of the problem....

[fishy2578]

That looks like a good article on the nitrogen cycle, but I don't have time to read it all and, in case it doesn't tell you, you can speed up your new tank's cycle, and very much minimize it, by using the gravel and other stuff from your already cycled tank. It is true that your new tank will not cycle unless it has a source of ammonia, but if you add all the substrate from the 10 to the 50, all the water, the same heater, all whatever plants, decorations, etc. you have, and the old filter, you will have a head start. You will need a larger filter, but should run it at the same time as the smaller one for a while so it can develop its own bacteria load. You will have to check the water daily, but should have only a very small spike in ammonia and nitrites, if any at all. If you are going to use a different substrate from what you have, you can put the old substrate in net bags in the tank and remove it after things settle down. You can also put it in the filter if it has room, just so it's in the water somewhere.