to gravel or not to gravel..............

[slipperyfish]

I am preparing to start a new 55 gal tank. I am pondering whether I want to use gravel as a substrate which I have always used or to branch out and try sand. I was hoping someone might be able to highlight a few of the pros and cons of each. I am curious how you vacuum the sand without losing it. I vacuum the gravel about every two weeks to get rid of the extra food and excrement. How does that work with sand?

[AngelMom]

I've never had sand, so I can't speak really well to it's advantages, but I do know that you have a much higher risk of getting anaerobic pockets under the sand than you have with gravel. Basically, if you do not sift the sand frequently, you can get little hydrogen gas bubbles under the sand which can kill the fish if / when they are disturbed. I don't know how frequently you need to stir the sand, but Budha Red would, I know he uses sand. As for vacuuming it, if I remember correctly, you just sort of skim the top of the sand to keep from sucking it into the vacuum tube. I suspect you could run your hand over the sand lightly just in front of the tube to stir up any detrius.

HTH

[DevinJM]

Sand is great and as long as the sand is no deeper than 1", you have no risk of anerobic pockets developing and if you wanted to help keep your nitrates away then you could make a deeper sand bed and use 3 inches of sand and let the bottom inch or so rest and it will become anerobic and bacteria will form to eliminate nitrates. Sand is harder to clean in that you have a higher likelyhood of sucking it up while cleaning, but as long as you only skim along the top, it shouldn't be a problem.

Gravel is good in the respect that anerobic pockets forming are rare, and it is easy to clean.

[metal-head]

some fish need sand mostly ones that like to dig for example and if you were to do live plants i have read that the roots keep it "airated" but then again i don't have expirence. I have also read if the fish likes to pick up rocks with its mouth large ones could get stuck....but at least for reptiles sand can cause impaction (where they have sand pluging up the digestive system) but i wouldn't know it that were true with fish i haven't read anything like that though.

[Buddha_Red]

I have a MTS colony in my sand. they move through it. All of the info i could gather says that these snails are actually good for the aquarium. They do not eat plants.

Yup, you just skim the surface when cleaning sand. the positive note, its much easier to see pockets of waste and clean it well avoiding ammonia. I have had no problems what so ever. Well .. it was a pain and expensive! I had to rinse my sand, takes forever to rinse large amounts . I used 50LBS in my mom's tank it was cheap 5 dollars per 50lbs, black sand is 20 dollars per 20lbs ...but...but...but i love the black sooo much hehe

[JohnH.]

I have about 1-2" of black sand in my 72 bowfront and it looks INCREDIBLE. This is a new tank and I've never had sand before, so I don't know if I will have problems or not. Red, what is an MTS colony? Should I get one?

[Buddha_Red]

no you wouldnt want mylasion trumpet snails unless you have a snail eater such as loaches. Mess with the sand, turn it over and you wont have to worry. Or do the same to gravel AFTER the tank is cycled on both. HTH

[John x jro]

im also thinking about a black sand for my 30 gall that is gunna have apistos in it...

[slipperyfish]

Thanks everyone!

[betaboi]

Wow 20 bucks for a 20 lb bag? it's 30 bucks per 20 lb bag here! I'm getting some black sand for my 55 gallon too. Stir the sand bed once or twice a week with the filters and powerheads in the tank turned OFF so you dont accidentally suck any up and damage the filter motor.

Hey, collect enough of that free-floating hydrogen and you could power a tiny hybrid motor for a second or two! :p

Pros of sand:
Fry don't get stuck in it.
Waste can't penetrate surface so you know where to vaccum.
good for digging fish (they don't risk being cut by sharp edges)
adds a more natural look to aquarium
provides anaerobic bacteria which use nitrATEs (no algae blooms)

Cons of sand:
May get sucked into filter motor, causing serious damage.
Can scratch glass if it is caught in a scrubber while cleaning inside of glass.
Can trap large amounts of hydrogen which can be deadly to fish if released all at once.
Can produce anaerobic bacteria which use needed nitrATEs that plants need to live.

Pros or cons (depending on situation): Can raise hardness of tank water.

Notice how the cons aren't definetive. (May, Can) This means that they can be prevented using caution.

[DevinJM]

Ha! Black Sand is 26$ for 20 Kilos Here (around 44lbs) and we have an african show tank(85 Gallon) with 3 Bags of the stuff in it and it's sweet.

[borispanda]

I find it very difficult to clean the sand in my tank.
I changed from gravel because of the catfish but I find it gets very dirty and it is hard to suck up the dirt in the siphon - as soon as some of it comes up (together with sand). Seems to just swirl around.
One fish I have had for about four years has just died from what I believe is a bacterial infection and I wouldn't be surprised if it is because of the difficulty of cleaning the sand.

[Jay+]

anglemom:

you can get little hydrogen gas bubbles under the sand which can kill the fish if

I"m sure you ment H2SO4 :)

Jay

[AngelMom]

Yes, but not a lot of people know what that is. Many haven't even heard the term hydrogen sulfide, so without the understanding of how bad it is, it's just another name or bunch of symbols strung together.

Remember, not everyone here has had chemistry, but almost everyone knows hydrogen gas is a bad thing for critters that need oxygen. I prefer to use the KISS philosophy to get the point across as opposed to complicating things where possible.

[Jay+]

hi angle mom...

In an open forum with an informed exchange of information' I would assume we could discuss that and thereby help hobbyists along.

Asking questions is a good thing, learning takes place.

If someone does not know what H2So4 is ASK and learn. I fail to see what is wrong with that. We should not be protecting people from questionable information. Don't you agree?

Jay

[AngelMom]

Everyone has their own style of dealing with questions and unless incorrect information has been provided, IMO the exchange you speak of has taken place.

Personally, I fail to see what is wrong with keeping things simple at times.

[Jay+]

Angle mom...

but almost everyone knows hydrogen gas is a bad thing for critters that need oxygen. I prefer to use the KISS philosophy to get the point across as opposed to complicating things where possible.

I'm not trying to be a hard head here, just to frame absolute statements in fact. H2O (water), KH2PO4 (dry nutrient used for PO4 (phosphate in planted tanks) and most importantly pH (hydrogen Ions) all play an important role in our tanks. All are forms of hydrogen. We are not talking advanced organic chemistry here, just very basic tank husbandry.

Jay

[AngelMom]

You seem to be the only one trying to make absolute statements here. I would have to say that if you took a poll on who knows how pH is determined, that a large number of the members here do not. And, quite frankly, I suspect there are a lot of folks who don't really care as long as they know what numbers are good (or bad) for their fish.

H2O (water), KH2PO4 (dry nutrient used for PO4 (phosphate in planted tanks) and most importantly pH (hydrogen Ions) all play an important role in our tanks. All are forms of hydrogen.While this is technically true, those forms of hydrogen all behave very differently. How many non-technical people think of water in terms of molecules, let alone hydrogen and oxygen elements? Not many that I've met.

We are not talking advanced organic chemistry here, just very basic tank husbandry.Actually, the technical aspects you are speaking of are not just basic husbandry ........ a discussion of this nature requires an understanding of at least basic chemistry and not everyone here has that knowledge.

If you want to have a technical discussion with someone, that is fine, but it should be kept in a separate thread so that those who aren't comfortable with talking tech don't feel obligated to read through your post to try and find information relevant to their question.