Over blown prices.

[Midas Man]

I have noticed for the last 2-3 years prices of most fish have been way over blown,i mean i used to be able to buy a nice 5-6 inch Tiger Oscar for roughly 10-12 bucks,but now i have to pay anywhere in between 20-30 bucks,its insane!!And where im from(Massachusettes)try buying a Midas or Mota,you almost have to take a loan out.I bought my Midas at 1 inch and paid a ridiculous sum of 25 dollars(only because i spent 3 years looking for one).I blame the LFSs for these high prices,i mean i know the economy is bad,but these people have to stop raping thier c

[vjvl51]

This forum (Marketplace Reports) is reserved for feedback on transactions that happen in Aquarists Marketplace (please note the discription of the forum). Feedback is a way, that over time, will take away some of the unknown when you are dealing with private people.

I'm moving this to The Refugium.

Vickie

[Zack]

Yep its sad. Many people have resorted to mail order fish/corals

[vjvl51]

We as fish keepers, expect that the person serving us is knowledgeable and able to correctly answer all types of questions on fish and aquariums. That is not the high school student working for minimum wage.

We as fish keepers, expect that all the tanks will be in prestine shape at all times. The cost of the time spent on cleaning and removing the ill and dead fish from the tanks is overhead, not a money making time.

We as fish keepers, expect stores to have a guarantee on the fish, even though in some cases the death of the fish is due to improper handling/tank conditions by the customer. This adds to overhead.

Animal lovers have encouraged lawmakers to sponsor laws that require more humane conditions for the animals during shipping and display in the store. This costs more money.

We, the customer, demand nice parking, close to the store. This costs money in rent and business taxes.

We, the customer, like to shop in a spacious, well lit store. More floor space costs more to build/rent. Well lit stores have to pay for the hydro and we all know what hydro costs are like.

Are these bad things? No, I am not saying that but we, the customer, have to pay for all of these things. A mail order business can operate out of a warehouse with lower taxes, less lighting, not paying wages for a knowledgeable person on stand by in case a customer comes in, etc. This is why their prices are lower.

In Canada, I can remember when gas was 16 cents a liter. Now it is 69 cents a liter. That is over a 4 times increase in cost. Have fish prices increased 4 times in the same period? I don't know.

Just something to think about.

Vickie

[Lucy]

I think that when you're buying something living you shouldn't expect to pay very little for it. I think low costs lead people to equate fish with lower value. People figure they can drop 50 cents on a goldfish, put it in a bowl and if it dies it's another 50 cents. If goldfish cost $20-30 there'd probably be more people out there taking better care of them.

I actually was confronted with this not too long ago. My mom had always said when they finally buy a house she's getting a dog, and she also always said she wanted a newfoundland dog. They've put an offer on a house that was accepted so I decided to do a little looking into the breed. Turns out they cost $1400 purebred, and my first reaction was to try and find one that wasn't so perfect and see how much they cost, but then I thought about it. These breeders charge this much because they make sure the dogs are bred to be very healthy and of the best temperment. How would it be ethical then to say "I don't are about that, I want a cheaper one?"

I think it's similar with fish. The more they cost the more valuable they are to the people they have come from. This should mean partly that they've been better cared for and therefore will be healthier and happier.

Most people like a bargain, and they especially like getting a bargain on something valuable, but I think when it comes to living things we should be willing to pay full price. - my 2 cents

[Zack]

LUCY YOUR BACK:D

[Nooboon]

She's been back for a while, but she had to re-register and hasn't got her moderator status back. Still no clue as to what's going on.

[Lucy]

Yeah, I haven't gotten read confirmation on either of the pm's I sent Dave yet, but he's been to the boards since... not sure if he just didn't notice he had them or been too busy for pm's? Hopefully it'll get sorted out soon.

[/hijack] ;)

[waruss]

I generally take advice and correction well so I decided to make a purchase from a LFS that opened recently near me. I asked some questions and got most answered to my liking and the fish/corals were healthy and displayed nicely.
The prices were nasty though. I still bought two bags of Coralife salt, hydrometer, and PC 2X65 24" light. Not only did I bite-the-bullet, I also chipped a tooth. I paid 30% to 200% more than I would have spent here at AP. Coralife sea salt 50gal. bag for $22, PC light for $166.
I'm not mad at the LFS but I am p***ed at the prices. He carries quality merchandise and also uses the same equip/chem on his tanks and is available if I have a problem. But there is only sooo far I will take this. AP prices would have saved me approx. $13 per bag of salt, $75 on PC light, and for RO/DI etc... I can save hundreds.

So, how does this balance out?
Questions and answers:
a) LFS - single answer based on his experience. (may be sales motivated)
b) Inet (AP board) - multiple answers based on experience by many individuals. (helpful techniques - not sales motivated)

Product/equipment:
a) LFS - one to two product lines, but with support for use knowledge and repair.(hopefully)
b) Inet - infinate product line. May have to wait for help on problems that need imediate attention. Poor instructions not explained. Shipping takes time.

Return policy (equipment):
a) LFS - BY store policy but, is close and no shipping charges.
b) Inet - getting a RMA is a hassle. Return shipping costs may not be refundable.

Live merchandise:
a) LFS - What you see is What you get. The ability to determine health/current living conditions at time of purchase.
b) Inet - possibility of lost shippments. Arrival of less than expected quality. Shipping stressed animals.

And the list goes on and on.
Where do we make the cutoff? If what I've read is true, the LFS has a smaller markup on livestock and makes it's money on equipment. But I like the ability to see the animals/fish before purchase, so I'll most likely buy these items from him. The Equipment and support chemicals are way too expensive though, I feel like I'm being ripped off!

[vjvl51]

Ward, I know what you mean. I can order a pail of IO salt from the internet for $115 - to my door. I can drive 3 hours one way to Toronto and pick up the same pail for $115. I can have a local store (only 40 minutes away) order in a pail for $175 (they only stock bags and very limited other marine supplies - like 12 inches of shelf space). I don't get salt from that store because of the price. They told me that $115 was below their cost. :(

My rule of thumb is that I will pay about 20% max over the internet price to support local stores. After that, I shop on line. I agree with you, that I like the prices here but by the time I pay exchange, taxes and duties, it's not worth the effort. I have found that when a custom agent doesn't know/understand what something is, they put it in the highest duty bracket. Yes, I can make a trip to the local customs office with photo copies all sorts of supporting documents and then wait 3 months for my refund.

Vickie

[Lucy]

vicky - I like your rule. Like you said, it especially applies when you work in things like duty and shipping.

waruss - I agree with you, too. I think if you can get the equipment easily from a trusted site and the mark-up from shipping et al isn't going to kill you why not use the internet? I highly agree with you on the live stuff. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable ordering livestock over the internet, but I'm lucky there. We have a decent LFS store in town with reasonable prices and a Big Al's that seems to take very good care of their fish 40 min away, again with good prices and good selection.

It would help in these situations to know what the real cost of the merchandise is. If the hypothetical item cost the store $100 and the big chain is only making $5 off of it you might not feel so bad paying the local store $120. I don't know if this happens in the fish industry but places like walmart will sell certain things for LESS than what it cost them to buy it so that you keep coming to their store, and the local stores can't compete without going out of business. I guess it's all about balancing value - cost - bargain. You want everyone in the deal to come out ok.