Mystery to me...

[fishE]

Grettings,
I have been lurking for a while :) I love this site. Tons of useful information and people who know what they are talking about. I have learned a lot here. Well, my de-lurking has come about due to necessity. I have had some unexpected problems in the last 2 days and for the life of me can not figure it out. A little help would be much appreciated.
I have a 20gallon that has been set up for 2 years. Never a single problem. 2 damsels, 1 clown, 35-40 lbs live rock. Biowheel and Powerheads. As always, Ammon-0, Nitri-0, Nitra-10-35. I have kept it pretty simple with good success. Well, two days ago I bought a SeaClone skimmer. Installed it and added a cartidge to the biowheel (did a 20% H20 change too). I never used cartridges before, just the biowheel to turn over the water-powerheads-and frequent H20 changes. Well, the next morning my damsel had passed on. I noticed the mouth of the other damsel (the living one) and clown were moving quite rapidly. The only thing I could figure is that some toxin was in the water. Damsel #2 wasn't looking so good. I removed the carbon cartridge to the biowheel, kept the skimmer in, and did a 50% H20 change. Damsel #2 died later on that evening. The clown is swimming the happiest I have ever seen him in the tank, but is opening and closing his mouth at a rate of about 28 times per 10 seconds. What is normal for opening and closing mouth? Well, there you have it. The clown is looking well, just opening and closing mouth a lot. I would hate to lose my clown too. All of these fish have been in the tank for 2 years by the way.

Thanks for ANY info or help anyone can offer.
Jeff

Eddited: I also have a turbosnail in the tank. The snail seems to have been unaffected by the whole ordeal. How sensative are invertabrates to changes in water quality-would snail have died first?

[crlkeep]

Welcome to the "de-lurkers" side of AP. Glad to meet you. :)

That being said, a few questions from me?

What is the tanks pH?
What is your Alkalinity?
What temp. is your tank?

Did you make sure that these three things matched from tank to water change water? If not, a sudden change in one or all of these may be the cause?

[fishE]

>>Welcome to the "de-lurkers" side of AP. Glad to meet you.
Thanks! Glad to be aboard :)

>>That being said, a few questions from me?

pH? 8.4
Alkalinity 250-300
temp 78.5

>>Did you make sure that these three things matched from tank to water change water? If not, a sudden change in one or all of these may be the cause?

I used to check these before doing a water change, but for a year I never had any deviation in the values. My assumption is that the water is the same as it has always been when I have done the water changes and not had any previous problems (hence my not worrying about the levels).

Thanks for your quick reply! Any other thoughts?
Jeff

[crlkeep]

To clear up any confusion on my part or yours, I was actually inquiring if both the tank and the water change water had the same readings.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but in this hobby, assumptions are often the leading cause to unidentifiable problems.

Also, forgive my ignorance, but I am only familiar with alkalinity reading of meq/L (milliequivalents per Liter) or dKh (Degrees of Carbonate Hardness). Does your test kit offer a conversion for these?

[fishE]

Yes...the confusion would probably be on my part...I understand now about the water before and after entering the tank (what you were previously asking). Here is what I got...

Water in aquarium:
pH=8.4
Alkalinity=250-300ppm

New Water:
pH=8.4
Alkalinity=240-300ppm

Here is another deal. For kicks I just pulled out another pH test (one I used to use/my old pH test). The aquarium measured 8.0 on the pH and the "new" water measured 7.8. I am sorry that I can not convert the Alkalinity reading. My kit only measures in ppm. It does have what it calls a "buffer" zone on the reading chart, and the reading I get seems to fall within this range.

>Please don't take this the wrong way, but in this hobby, assumptions are often the leading cause to unidentifiable problems.
I completely understand. I understand better today, as a matter of fact, than 3 days ago.

Thanks for your time and help!
Jeff

[crlkeep]

No problem Jeff.

I don't want to be a nuisance, but does this test kit tell you what range in ppm NSW is? This will help me understand the ppm reading a bit better. If not, what brand of salt mix do you use, and at what Salinity do you keep it at. I can figure the alkalinity out from that as well...

Also, it is possible that with the addition of the skimmer, you may have inadvertantly caused a shift if the biological filter, by starving the bacteria that have been feeding off of the DOC's that the skimmer is now removing. Also the oxygen levels may have started to rise due to the increased gas exchange abilities of the skimmer. This can cause a rapid rise in pH in a small tank like a 20 gallon.

These changes are for the better, but may still have stressed the fish a bit, in the fact that they are experiencing a rapid change in their environment. Changes for the good or bad, can have negative impacts initially if they are made to quickly. This is most prevalent in smaller more established systems such as yours.

Out of curiousity, what made you decide to run the skimmer? Was it replacing another skimmer, or just adding one to a skimmerless setup?

[fishE]

Hi again,
I am sorry, but my test kit does not give any indicators of NSW. But I can tell you about my salt mix and salinity. I use Instant Ocean and keep the Salinity at 1.022. BUT, from all the reading I have been doing in order to save my fish, I am considering bumping it slowly up to 1.025. Good idea? Oh, some good news...my clown fish is as happy as I have ever seen him-looking really good. I figure the whole ordeal is over, and he is a survivor. Skimmer is pumping out not so pleasant looking bubbles into the cup.

>Out of curiousity, what made you decide to run the skimmer? Was it replacing another skimmer, or just adding one to a skimmerless setup?

It was adding one to a skimmerless setup. I have always tried to keep my aquarium as natural as possible, but recently I have been reading more and have convinced myself a skimmer would help my fish be happier inhabitants in my tank. Ironic that the addition of my skimmer led to the death of two of my fish. Damsels at that, a hardy fish to say the least.

Jeff

[crlkeep]

Yes, raising your Salinity to 1.025 is a great idea, provided you do it as you mentioned (slowly). I run mine at 35ppt or 1.026.

Glad to hear the tank is doing better. :)